Stronglifts 5v5 : Where do I go from here?
So let me start by saying, This is the best program I have ever followed in my life. I am in the best and strongest shape I have ever been in my entire life, and I can attribute most of it to sticking with the Stronglifts 5v5 program.
I'm 5'9, weigh 155 lbs and I wear it proudly. These are my numbers after about 5 months.
245 Squats
185 Bench
185 Rows
105 Shoulder Press
315 Deadlifts
I am quite proud of all of these, because I am not, and have never been a big guy. I would love to keep going, however....
If I do this workout 3-4 times a week, my right knee starts to hurt. I am not looking for medical advice. I'm an athlete, I know what kind of lingering pain is detrimental to my health, and this isn't it. It's just over-exertion, and lots of strain being placed on my knee due to the heavy weight, and perhaps not 100% perfect form. Besides, when lifting like this, a little bit of pain to be expected.
What I am looking for, is a continuation program, probably with less squats. Maybe more strength training, with power cleans, clean and jerks, compound lifts, etc... I am really not a fan of isolation exercises, because they are a huge waste of time for my goals/body type.
My goals are basically to keep getting stronger, and get more muscle definition. I really don't care about my weight or my body fat %. Summer is coming, and I'd love to sculpt the muscle mass I've gained after a long winter of heavy lifting. If isolation, low volume and high reps is what I need to do, then so be it.
But if someone has had success with something a little more geared toward strength and compound lifting, I would love to hear it.
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My advice to you should be treated like gold as this advice gave me the ability to smash my records and stay injury free even with a surgically related knee.
First squats are not the problem, it is probably the way you do them.
Second you are overtraining by using this method three to four times a week.
I am 5'10" and I benched an all time best 510 last week, I recently broke 600 on deadlift and squat around 550. I have no pain and I train to a near 90 percent max on a weekly basis. You may ask, "how do I do this?"
I myself was an accomplished athlete I played two years of college football, I was a competitive mma fighter until my knee injury. I use the conjugate method of weight lifting. I can sit here and write you a 8 pg research paper on its benefits and at the end of my comment I will leave you the info you need to install this system. NFL lineman, Olympic track and field, basketball and yes hockey players have used this method to shatter records and stay injury free.
The conjugate method of weight lifting is centered around three major core lifts: bench press, deadlifts, box squats; these lifts, if done in accordance to the method developed by Louie Simmons, will give you more power than you have ever had.
I stopped doing free squats and instead do box squats at or below parallel because the box squat was used by soviet lifters to shatter American records and dominate sports. It is not even a squat at all, it is really a leg curl that kills the posterior chain, a group of muscles that include your hip flexors and ham strings and the erector muscles of the lower back. It is easier on your knees and will keep you injury free. You will have more strength and raw explosive power than ever before with no need for doing overrated Olympic lifts done wrong in the United States. Go to the west side barbell website and begin changing your life.
Just a first stab at an answer. Definitely open to corrections.
Replace 1 of your gym workouts with conditioning work (sprints, intervals, other HIIT, etc.) and reduce your calories so that you maintain strength, rather than gain strength.
You will still do your gym workout, only 2 times per week, but don't aim to increase the weight on the bar, or increase it much more slowly than before. [Somebody could describe a nice alternative workout like Marco's asking for here... I don't have any suggestions.]
This should result in a slow decrease in bodyfat % (will bring definition), while not sacrificing your current strength. You say you don't care about bodyfat %, but while you may not care about its absolute value, you do care that it decreases... this is the only way to get the type of definition I think you're talking about.
Basically, I'm trying to describe what people call a "cut". I've never done one myself. There are probably other experts around here, though.
Here's the story of a guy who took this to the extreme. He's a powerlifter with a 700+lb deadlift who decided to cut for a bodybuilding competition, losing 40lbs in 63 days.
startingstrength.com/index.php/site/steel_odyssey http://startingstrength.com/index.php/site/how_to_lose_40_lb_of_fat_in_63_days
I'm starting out by saying Dave Liepman's answer is pretty spot on. There are plenty of programs out there that are good, including Gray Skull, Hepburn, Wendler 5/3/1, Big-15 (Paul Carter), etc. Take a look at them and figure out what fits your desires best.
As to the knee pain, there are a couple things to consider:
Foam rolling or LaCrosse ball treatment on trigger points. Lots of squatting can get your hips so tight it pulls at your knees at odd angles.
Take a deload and work on technique.
I've gone through a number of times in my journey to a 445lb squat where I had to take weight off the bar and refine my technique. The first is where your squat is now, then again in the 300s. And again in the 400s. My squat is a lot better now than it was during starting strength. When I finally get my squat over 500lbs, I can say the same about my squat being better then. While I have mad respect for Rippetoe, and his Starting Strength book is one of the best strength training books out there, particularly for beginners, I found his squat cues don't help me.
Here's some points that have helped me:
The tighter your entire body, the more you can lift. Arch your back, tighten your shoulders.
Bar path needs to be as close to straight up and down as possible.
Shove those knees out to make room for your body
Don't sit back too far. That only works if you have a squat suit.
Try to "Break the Bar". That's apply as much force straight up through the bar on your back as you can, like you are trying to permanently bend the bar.
The last point, "Break The Bar" automatically takes care of the first couple points. It also helps prevent the "squat-morning" where your hips move faster than your shoulders. If you open your knees to let your body come straight down, that also helps with the bar path and sitting back too far. Just boil it down to the smallest number of cues that can give you the greatest results.
Also, one of the best tools I've discovered to help fix form is the paused squat. You don't relax at all, but you stay at the bottom for a second or two. Enough to feel that you've hit parallel, are still in good balance, and ready to drive up hard. It kills the stretch reflex, but you can better feel if you are out of alignment or discover and fix any number of small problems.
Came off Stronglifts after about 14 months of linear progression - was in the best shape of my life, but I just couldn't keep increasing the weight every session once I hit about 145kgs on Squats, and 155 on Deadlifts.
I've since shifted to Wendlers 5/3/1 - It's a great program for me, because it focuses on monthly progression - I am comfortable enough with my level of fitness that I don't need to improve at any particular rate, as long as I'm constantly improving. And you can do that with 5/3/1. Also, it's squats one day a week.
Your body is telling you it's in trouble, and you're asking for ways to get stronger while continuing to do the thing that's causing the trouble. That sounds backwards. Fix your squat form, figure out what the pain in your knee is, and continue squatting with 5/3/1 or a similar intermediate program. (Or, start doing conditioning or gymnastics or Oly lifting or....) Ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away. The fact that you're the fittest you've ever been and you're quite strong for your size might mean an injury is right around the corner.
If the impetus for your program change is "my knee hurts when I squat", then fix the knee pain, don't remove the squats.
If you're looking for a temporary lifting program because you've stopped squatting while you go to health or lifting professionals about your knee, then "more of everything except squats" would be fine programming.
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